City, County Government Discuss Views On Law Enforcement Unification

This is the third in a series regarding the future of Grant County jail and law enforcement. Grant County Commissioners are looking to add a possible bond issue for voters in the future.

Ulysses City Councilman Ken Warner told Grant County Commissioners at a recent meeting between the two entities that he understood "there has to be a bond," in order to have the jail project.

As for the commissioners question as to whether or not the city would be interested in moving the police department in to a new facility, Warner stressed that, "This is such an important decision we don't want to be rushed in to that decision at all."

Grant County Commissioner Mark McGaughey said Warner's concern was "fair."

"I don’t disagree with you at all on that," McGaughey said. "The jail didn’t just come up this year. They have been talking about it for several years. Lance Babcock) had brought it up before. We visited about it and did have a company come in two years ago with the other commissioners. We kind of looked at doing something then."

At that time, McGaughey said,  prices for construction were"skyrocketed."

"We all know what the prices did during Covid," McGaughey said. "We kind of looked at it and when I saw the numbers... There is no way to have the size of facility we were looking at that we could afford that. It was very high. It was ridiculous."

McGaughey said prices have changed somewhat since then.

"Prices have come back down some," he said. "So, when we are looking at it now - the problems we are having over there now - James (Biddle) will surely take anyone through it to show them why we are needing something - either a remodel or a rebuild."

McGaughey repeated what Grant County Commissioners John Martin and Marty Long had already said.

"The reason we are talking about the unification right now, especially if we do build a jail, we really need to know what you guys' stance is," he said. "If you’re going to move with us? If you want to unify and move with us we can tell them (architects) that now for the administrative offices side of things."

Warner said although he understood the need for the unification question, there was still things that needed to be decided.

"If we are going to move with you where are you going to be?" Warner asked. "Are you going to be on the outskirts of the city limits? (If so), would that be wrong for us? I don’t know. We haven’t had those discussions. That leaves us feeling rushed to make those decisions so you can get ready for your bond. I don’t know if we want to be rushed through that decision. It's very important to this community - it needs a lot of research and discussion and I don’t think we can do that in a few weeks."

City Councilman Mark Diaz said he also has concerns about the unification request.

"My concern is we have city officers that have been stressed," Diaz said. "They are stressed wondering about their jobs, about their livelihood."

Diaz also noted he thought the joint city and county meeting was the "best thing that could have happened."

"Because then you see our opinion as the city council that we don’t want the unification because our city officers need to go on. The county officers need to go on," he said. "Jim (Biddle) and Ron Vagher - they need to be able to work together and bring back the unity within the community. I'm glad you brought this meeting because in the past we’ve had a lot of miscommunications between the chiefs of police and sheriffs that goes back clear since 1981."

Diaz said he worked as an interpreter in the past for the sheriff's department. That he had seen the struggles between the two law enforcement agencies.

"We’re (the council) not interested in (unifying the departments)," he said, adding that another concern he has is where a new jail would be located. "It does make a difference to us where you put that, because if you put it outside in the county it also comes down to water, sewer - that type of stuff. That has an effect on the city for that part of it. We need input for the jail part of it. The police department’s never had input on the jail. I think the last meeting we had you guys wanted the conversation brought up that you wanted input from us - it’s not going to matter if you have input from us, because at the end of the day it’s going to be run by the county."

Diaz said a unification would not have a financial benefit for the city.

"The monies that we’re going to save is not going to benefit," he said. "Unifying them 15 years down the road if the population drops down to 2,000-3,000 - we can look at it , but that’s 15 years down the road and that’s just a guess. I think tonight when we leave here we need to be able to give our officers a little bit of peace about how they feel and the county officers also. We need to be able to move on with this and let you guys do what you need to do to get your bond issue or your tax deal going."

Grant County Commissioner Marty Long said he didn't think anyone's intent was to put jobs on the line.

"I don’t think it was our intent to put anybody’s job in peril or cause a panic or have them worry about that," Long said. "Our intent was just to have a conversation so we can know how to proceed. If that caused undue stress we apologize."

Diaz stressed a majority of the officers on the police department were here when there were issues between the two departments.

"They went through hell," he said. "I was there. I worked with them and it's not fair to them."

Ulysses City Councilman Sam Guy had a question for the county commissioners.

"You were talking about the possibility of remodeling," Guy said, "doesn’t that building have
major plumbing problems and it was built on a slab which would make it awfully hard to remodel?"

Long said those were issues of concern.

"I think that is why we are worried about the costs of remodeling maybe being as high as 65-70 percent of the cost of a new one," Long said. "Because of the way it is constructed it is going to make it awfully high, plus the cost of farming out prisoners for 14 -16 months to other counties while we do it. We’ll have to bear those costs."

Guy noted another issue at the jail is the segregation of male and female inmates.

Long responded that the commissioners had visited with their insurance company about some of the issues.

"When we talked to our insurance company - that’s when they talked to us about getting on board and getting something done right now," Long said. "The jail is our biggest liability exposure. It opens us up for lawsuits,  because of segregations with dangerous population (versus) not dangerous or male and female. The current floor plan is not the new system that everybody uses. It’s a linear system that is outdated, so it’s hard to remodel and change the floor plan."

Long noted they have to look at the possibility of remodeling over building to ensure proper diligence for taxpayers.

Guy said if the taxpayers want this and are willing to pay for it, he doesn’t have any problem with it.

"Bu, I have a major problem with combining the city police and the sheriff’s department," he added. "I would never support that and I would never vote for it to be honest with you."

City Councilman Terry Maas said he doesn't "doubt that a new" facility is needed.

"I don’t doubt just with my experience with the sheriff’s department that a new jail is needed," Maas said. "It’s getting to the point that it’s outdated and you are at a liability. I think you are going to have a hard sell to the community especially in the economic environment that we’re in, in trying to get this done. I wish you the best, but as far as any type of city involvement, I think it’s premature to ask us, 'hey are you going to need offices over there', because ....it’s your building it’s going to be your facility. You build it the way you feel is necessary and really it has nothing to do with us. I agree with everybody else in regards to the unification of law enforcement - I'm not for that at all ."

Grant County Commissioner John Martin said he disagrees it is "premature" for commissioners to ask questions of the council regarding unification.

"I don’t agree with you," Martin said, "because if we are meeting with architects we have to have a direction to go with.  Out of respect for you guys - your opinion on something like this - I felt I wanted that input." 

Maas responded, "But you're also asking us to look in to the future and that crystal ball just doesn't exist."

"Tat’s the kind of things I have always looked at my whole life building my business - doing anything," Martin added. "'Where am I going to be at 10 years from now? What does it look like?' Because if I wait five years to try to be there in 10 years I won’t get it. I will miss my mark.  As far as the police officers or anybody else - if you hear anything or if you want to question anything call me. Come talk to me. I'll sit down and explain myself to you. You may not like what I have to say, but if you have questions, don’t hesitate to reach out to me. I'll meet with you. I'll talk to you - anybody, everybody."

Long noted that although some may consider it to be a "hard discussion" to have, having it open to the public was a "good thing."

Maas agreed.

"I think all of us getting together here and being open to the public and transparency on what you guys are trying to do (is good)," Maas said. "One of the things I asked was whether or not any city dollars were going to be allocated for this project or were you thinking of bringing that up down the road ?"

Long said the county commissioners had "never considered that".

"Talking about the economics Terry," Long said. "You are exactly right - none of us can guess what it's going to do."

To which Maas added, "If you look at the economic downturn we had a few years back with oil and gas and then top that with the pandemic - who knows?"

Martin stressed the importance of getting the public to understand.

"If you are spending 70 percent or 60 percent of the cost of something new (to remodel) nobody is going to think that is wise use of funds to go that direction," he said. "If we don’t do it today, that jail is 50 years old. It has to be done in the next 10 years or it will be even harder to afford to do it 10 years from now. That’s why we are wanting to move forward with it now. It's never going to be a pretty subject to approach like a swimming pool, park or a library. A jail is not a fun thing to talk about."